Two Ways to Drive Intros with New Partners with Sam Dunning

Trust is obviously a common theme we've been touching on in this show. And if your company has become a trusted advisor to your customers, then you're probably getting asked for recommendations all the time, but it can border on a feeling of frustration. If you've faced this enough without a way to respond, do you know anyone you'd recommend for this or that if your customers are asking about. Other areas where you can't help them. You hate to not to be able to help, but what if you could add more value to your clients by providing timely intros while tapping into partnerships that could generate net new revenue for you as intro start coming your way in return. In today's episode, Sam Dunning, co owner of WebChoice, who is an SEO, web design and web development agency serving B2B brands. He shares how he's done exactly that leveraging intros and referrals quite successfully, as you'll hear from a few examples. In today's episode, Sam and his team at web choice have intentionally built partnerships with two specific types of organizations that can create two new sources of new pipeline for their agency. Number one, software companies offering solutions related to their area of expertise and number two. Other service providers offering complimentary services that they themselves don't provide. Sam shared with us how to identify the right potential partners based on your niche and ICP. The two ways to engage with these potential evangelists to drive new pipeline together and three specific tactics you can use once you've established a new partnership. And as a bonus, since SEO is their agency specialty, he even gives three specific blog collaboration plays. You can run with a partner company who's willing to do some nearbound marketing with you. To start, let's hear from Sam about a time he partnered with another agency with a complimentary service to establish a new partnership and drive some new opportunities together.

One that springs to mind straight away is, so our company primarily focuses on B2B SEO. And then we do a bit of consultancy here and there. So, we don't touch any social ads, LinkedIn ads, anything like that. I just don't have the knowledge or expertise around it, nor does the team. So, after consuming one chap's content on LinkedIn, naturally as you do when you're scrolling on LinkedIn, you tend to... Build a bit of a liking to certain pieces when they resonate, when they tell interesting stories, when they share actionable tips, kind of practical advice, and when you see that in the feed daily, I suppose you become drawn to certain people when you hang on LinkedIn and spend an unhealthy amount of time on it, just like I do. So, um, yeah, saw a guy called Justin Rowe stuff on there. He runs a agency called Impactable. They do LinkedIn ads for B2B co's. And firstly, I invited him to my podcast business growth show. Mainly because, it wasn't even that, there wasn't even much thought behind it really. It was just we haven't done much on the show in terms of sharing LinkedIn ads advice. And because he talks about that every day, I thought let's get him on as a guest episode. That'll be really useful, plus I can steal some ideas myself. So we ended up getting him on, I think since he's been on there like one or two times more. And as you do, when you invite kind of people to podcast, you tend to have a conversation before build a bit of a rapport, talk a bit about how things are going with them, their business. And then we did the same kind of after we did the show and he gave some actual tips across the show on kind of running LinkedIn ads for as a B2B company, what works, what doesn't and all that good stuff. So we did that piece together. I think we did a live podcast and then we produced it and chopped it up. And then kind of a few weeks later, because we kind of built up that initial relationship. I thought, well, why don't we do some, some extra stuff together? There's probably some more business that can be done here because we both serve B2B customers, but we're not competing for the same services, the same offers. So we've got the right kind of niche audience. But we're not going to be jumping on each other's backs trying to steal clients. So Essentially, we said I think first thing we did was I wanted to actually get some seo juice on an article that I was writing I asked him on an article that he had on his site that I found that was relevant to the topic I was writing about if he could give me a link back And at the same time I was doing a list of like top 10 b2b videos or podcasts that companies to tune into So I gave him a link on that article and then from there. I thought well That's probably a bit more that we can do than, than just kind of sharing links, sharing content and doing podcasts together and ended up setting up like a partnership or referral program, which is, I suppose the takeaway from this is to find companies that serve the same. Client sector or serve the same niche industry, but aren't competing for the same services or offerings. So essentially whenever those folks get inquiries or have existing customers around the offers we provide, they'll shoot them our way. And likewise, whenever someone mentions LinkedIn ads, or we think LinkedIn ads could be a good fit for them, we'll, we'll shoot them their way. So it's very much kind of looking for those opportunities and saying to them and that them doing similar. So that, that's a quick one that comes to mind, but happy to dive in deeper.

Yeah, I love Justin's content and you rightly called out. He knows this stuff when it comes to LinkedIn ads. I saw a post the other day from him might've been a few weeks back now about LinkedIn thought leader ads, really breaking down a new feature, a new opportunity on the platform. He knows it really well. I think there are a few mistakes agencies often make not investing in. Your own marketing to not finding others who can help amplify your message where you can find a win win, or maybe if they are doing that, they're investing in their own marketing, they're doing like you're doing. You've got a, a show you guys host, you guys invest in content yourself. Maybe you are partnering with a few other people. But it's kind of one and done. And that was what really stood out to me. There is like you, you started with a collaboration with Justin, but then you look for opportunities for where it could grow from there. And as we go further, I want to talk a little bit more about how you then measure success. What have been some of the big wins you guys have seen in partnering with other agencies. But the, the thing that you mentioned there, Sam, I want to spend a little bit more time on is. Where to start, where to find those relationships. So you mentioned for agencies, oftentimes it can be as simple as, well, we do websites, they do organic social. Maybe I need to find someone who knows paid social. Well, maybe I need to find a rev ops agency who gets super tactical into that side of things and kind of looking at. All the needs of the customer and where do I not have a relationship to fill? Would you say that's maybe a good place to start and where you go from there, Sam? What you probably want to do

is that there's two places you want to start. One's pretty much what you nailed there is if you get as a company, if you get prospects, ask you for things regularly. Whether that is yourself, perhaps as the founder or your sales team are reporting back. I don't know, perhaps you're, you're, you're providing, um, some kind of integration tool, but people keep asking, do you, do you do work on HubSpot CRM? Or do you do Salesforce integration? You're like, no, I don't. But we keep getting asked about that all the time. Then naturally you're probably going to want to find a partner that can fulfill that requirement. Um, because it makes sense because you can serve those prospects or customers better So think about what are the things that you get asked for quite a bit That's perhaps almost got to the point where it's a little bit frustrating because you can't fulfill it But you know, those customers or prospects are are asking for it like almost on a weekly or daily basis um So make make a list of those with the relevant members of your team and then yeah always You want to start with your existing network? So whether that is if you're on linkedin then who are the people that you you trust? That you're seeing sharing content that, you know, can actually fulfill results in the field. So perhaps they share stories, they share tips, they share ideas. Most days on LinkedIn, then you probably want to check their website after and actually make sure that they're backing up their claims. They've got the case studies, they've got the results, they've got the clients to, to prove their worth. And then yeah, I mean reach out to those folks because they're your immediate network So it's probably going to be quite light touch to actually get in touch with them So it's probably just if you're connected on linkedin sharing them a a dm Obviously if it's someone you know offline then you can pick up the phone drop them a text or call and then kind of The conversation should be quite straightforward, really, because it's in both of your interests to kind of strike up these partnerships. And then it's really deciding about what you want to do together first, whether you want to take the kind of longer term approach and kind of build some content together first, or whether you want to get straight stuck into it in business sense, which I'm a very much don't be about the Bush guy. So I'd very much be like, um, well, we're getting all these client requests. We don't have a company to fulfill it. Would you be interested to have a quick chat to see if we can send you work your way and if there's any opportunities you can send our way, or if not, maybe some kind of kickback or referable scheme or something like that. And most, uh, if you're contacting the right person that's responsible for that. Requirement then naturally, they're probably going to respond pretty quick and agree to set up some kind of cool. So that's probably the first port of call that I'd recommend.

I love that. Would you say, Sam, more often you're having that conversation, approaching that other agency with an opportunity to collaborate. And leading with the, Hey, let's talk about referrals back and forth, or let's talk about doing some content together so that we can drive new business in both directions, or has it really depended on the situation, what you lead with, and then kind of, if it leads to a yes and, or an either or sort of thing. Yeah,

I suppose there's two angles to it, right? Um, one is if it's in demand now, i. e. if you're getting these requirements come up from prospects or customers and you want a team to fulfill it, then it would be from my recommendation quite a straightforward convo. Find someone in your network, reach out to them, clearly define kind of what's happening and the opportunity and ask them if it's worth a chat. Some will say yes, some will say no. If they say no, that's fine. Move on to the next person. Where is the other side of it? Kind of more of a partnership for creating content. It's more of a longer term play, I'd say. So that's more of an ABM account based marketing perspective, almost. So that's almost like, let's make a list of these companies that fulfill different services that our clients could potentially benefit from. I don't know. Let's use a tool like LinkedIn sales navigator, or let's use Lusher or zoom info, and let's pull together a list of all these companies that could potentially offer. Supplementary services to ours that service the same type of niche or industry that we service, but we're not yet in contact with them. Let's find out the person that's responsible for that. If it's a small company, might be the founder. If it's a large company, I don't know, might be the operations director, VP of marketing, whatever, whoever it's the point of contact, then that's more the longer term approach where you LinkedIn and say something like, Hey, often speak to kind of VPs of marketing and enjoyed your recent. Post on this topic, especially this part would love to have you on my podcast where I interview marketing leaders. Are you, are you against having a conversation, some painfully short message like that, strike up the convo, see if they're up for coming on your show or creating some piece of content together. It might not be a podcast. It might be a video series or a blog article or. Something else, and that's the more longer term play where you're actually striking up an account, a list of target accounts, which doesn't necessarily just have to be for partnerships, but that can work well for prospects in general that you want to break into the account by kind of doing that longest term relationship play. And then obviously, as, as we know, when you go on to podcasts and things like, you're always going to have a conversation before and after and build up a rapport. So it's, it's quite a good way of getting your foot in the door with perhaps companies. You might want to do some business with longer term.

Yeah, I love what you called out there, Sam, in that for most agencies, there's likely if you're looking at your niche and you're looking at your ICP, there are probably two sets of folks that you could be partnering with, right? Who are the technology companies that are providing complementary solutions? And maybe you're not hmm. Their partner program or become an official affiliate, but you see that there is a way for you to partner to reach the same audience. And then on the other side, as we talked about, for instance, in the example you opened with between your agency and Justin Rose, this is another agency who's not providing products, but providing services that don't compete with ours, you've kind of got both of those angles where maybe there's not demand now, but there's an opportunity for a strategic partnership to surround. Your mutual ICP, and I love how you brought it back again to that opening example with Justin Rowe. If you're an agency who has a podcast, sometimes that is the easiest way to just build the relationship, right? I spent four years at a podcast production agency, and I can tell you podcasting is great for content. It's great for repurposing. It's great for connecting with your audience, but don't underestimate the value of it as a networking tool. To just get to know people who you could partner with again, if they're technology companies or other agencies. So from here, Sam, I would love to hear maybe a few examples. You did a great job of talking about who you should think about targeting, how you should think about opening the conversation and kind of what you should lead in with, right? Two different scenarios. There's demand. Now I've got referral opportunities, kind of people chomping at the bit that I could give you, or there's a longer term play here. What are some of the. Plays and tactics that you've run, that you've executed with some of these folks that you've partnered up with, whether they're an agency or they're a technology company that make a good partner for you guys at web choice.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of, do you mean in terms of the actual content creation together?

Yeah. You know, we talked about doing a podcast, but what have been some of the other, you know, content plays or campaigns that you guys have run together? What's worked well? What have you tried? What are you testing right now? We'd love to hear more.

Yeah, yeah, sure thing. So there's a few different ones. So aside from podcasts, you could do a short video series. So you could do something like podcasts for some people if they've not. Kind of been on one before, or if they're perhaps a bit sceptical, I suppose is a bit, quite, one, quite a big investment of their time, like, I don't know, 30, 40 minutes, or however so much be. And two, it might be something they're a little bit apprehensive of going on as a guest. So you could, if you don't run a show yourself, do a mini series. So that might be something if you're in the B2B space, you run on LinkedIn. So rather than like a, I don't know, committing 30, 45 minutes of their time, you say, look, we're running a mini series on LinkedIn. We're going to run it through our page. We're going to run through our personal profiles. We're going to do some sponsored ads behind it and might be just more of a kind of short five. Seven minute thing where you focus on a specific topic that's going to be relevant for both your audiences Maybe it's you just address some of the common questions that get brought up on sales calls in your two industries Maybe you address some of the biggest problems that get raised or the biggest Frustrations around your niche and then you film that together And you kind of chop that up. It makes it quite light touch For the other side. Um, so it's quite a low commitment that time you can kind of even pre pre-war them with some of the questions that are gonna be thrown out, and it could be more of a rapid fire thing, and then you chop that up and slice that up for, for LinkedIn or, or whatever social channels your audience hang out on. So that's one way to get your foot in the door for people that perhaps aren't ready to commit to a full on video or audio podcast session. So it's somewhere in between. Another option is the classic route of creating a, an article together. And this is something we do a fair bit being an SEO agency. It's a natural next step, but it can also feed in if you do a podcast with another companies, you can ask them to do that as a next step, but that's more so hopefully the prospect or the potential company you're talking to has got a website that's been around a little while. So it's got a bit of domain authority behind it, and then you can essentially. Discuss creating a piece of piece of content together. So that could be something that's going to help both your audiences. Maybe it is a top guide on maybe if, if you are that scenario that I talked about earlier, where you. Perhaps providing integrations to HubSpot or something like that that talks about kind of top things to consider when you're integrating into the CRM And you build a bit of a playbook together where you cover kind of both sides the service you offer And the technical support they provide and you kind of answer some questions go through a bit of a playbook Maybe put in some infographics and statistics and kind of build that out together on one side And then they'll give you a link back to your site and then likewise perhaps you'll do Something from a slightly different angle on your own article Um, where maybe you'll cover a different type of playbook or you'll cover a common objection that gets raised or something like that, where you can kind of do a bit of reciprocal content, build it out together, and then get a nice juicy backlink to kind of ramp up your SEO for one of your target keywords. That's quite a nice way of doing something together. So those are a couple things that, that spring to mind from, from a content perspective. I suppose the most important thing to start with is how well do you know this person initially? Because if it's quite well, then they might be open to jumping on a quite a detailed kind of 45 minute hour video podcast. Whereas if it's someone that you've never kind of talked to before and you're going in cold, you might want to start with something a bit lighter touch, like building an article together and giving yourselves a backlink, or doing a very short kind of initial video series. And then once you get that rapport, you get that relationship, you kind of strengthen it and build more content together over time.

I love that in that advice on kind of the mini series play is something that I've even talked about on this show. I think a lot of times people think whether you're doing this with a partner with a complimentary agency or with a technology company that you're partnering up with for co marketing is we're talking about here or not. A lot of times people think you've got to do. You know, uh, a full webinar. You've got to do a full podcast episode in order to chop that up for the short form videos. And that's great. And I've seen you guys do that with your show. It's a very effective strategy, but especially if you're bringing in someone from the outside, then. Just take that same strategy, but don't worry about the long form. Just say, Hey, let's hop on. We're going to do a series and we're going to post about it kind of under this, this name or this tagline or this hashtag. We're going to ask you these five rapid fire questions, and we're going to turn that into stuff. That's a great kind of way to, to lower the barrier to entry and remove some of the friction that you might get. If you're trying to establish a new relationship and a new partnership, obviously being an SEO focused firm, you guys are experts there. I knew you would go to, you know, some backlinks and blog articles together. That's really not my area of expertise. And so for other agencies who that's not. There, that's not their primary area either. What are some best practices there? Do you typically say, Hey, let's come up with a topic and let's do this, you know, on our blog, and then let's come up with a new topic for yours. So you're not posting the same content or is it a slight variation? Like what are some of the tactics that you recommend since it's your guys area of specific expertise for running that play for others who maybe haven't executed that with a partner company

yet? Yeah, I suppose there's. Two ways that come to mind initially is one, maybe even three, like one, you could do super light touch where it might be, you've got an article that's fully written out already, and then you offer, because it's relevant to this potential partner company, you could say, look, I've already written out a blog that's actually talking about your industry. And I could give you a link back to that and if you've got something relevant on your article that on your Blog section of your website that's relevant to our company again, we could do that So that's one first super light touch. The second thing is you could do more of a listicle type situation So what we did with the linkedin ads agency impactable was we At the time anyway, I was putting together a list of kind of b2b podcasts and video series And, because I was consuming Justin's stuff on YouTube, I put his down on the list, and just dropped a message. I said, look man, I'm gonna link out to, to your site, because I like your YouTube channel, and I think it's decent. I think the advice is actually practical. Do you have anything... So I can put together for your site, any, um, kind of content that I can build out for you, where you can give us a link back to web choice. And then we kind of had a bit of a chat and he said, can you do a topic that kind of talks about, I think it was something to do with linking, measuring conversions on LinkedIn ads and taking the data from your website back. So it was kind of a split between our two companies. So that's one way you could do it. Another, it all depends how much, how detailed you want to go, or you could do like a super detailed playbook. It might be that you're both going for a target search term that perhaps isn't ranking as well as you wanted. And that could be directly to do with a service or offer that you provide. If it's kind of lower funnel keyword, or it could be kind of higher up in the funnel, if it's more around a question around your niche or problem or comparison. So it could be that you kind of. Want to address a direct bottom of the funnel service or build out a playbook. And then you kind of work on certain pieces of it together. So it could be that you say, I'll talk about my area of expertise here. You'll talk about your area of expertise here. We'll build out, we'll do the skyscraper technique. So what we'll do is for this target search term, we're going to whack it into Google. We're going to look at the top three organic results. We're going to see how their content's produced. We're going to look at the length of it. We're going to look at the detail of it, we're going to look at if there's any gaps that we can improve in terms of the type of content, how in depth it is, if there's any statistics we can raise, if there's more insights we can bring up, if we can talk about kind of FAQs, common questions we can get, if we can address problems, if we can weave in more social proof, if we can give more practical advice, we'll look to one up these pieces as much as we can and kind of work on that together. Because it's quite relevant to what we both do. That goes a bit more detailed into kind of long form playbook based content or how to guides or that kind of stuff. So yeah, those are a few ideas. And then, like I say, look for depending on the target search, something that you want to rank, get, get a link back to your site and kind of build it out from

there. I love those three plays. Take an existing article, offer a backlink and ask for one in return. If you are working on new content, who could you include? And same thing there offer, let them know, Hey, I'm just. I'm giving you a back link. Is there something that, that I can contribute? So I'm both of those kind of a give to get, but based on a different status on where you're at with the content and then third, a little bit more in depth. If you're going to co create something that is kind of a meaty. Playbook, how do you determine where does that ultimately live? Is there one version on your site and another on theirs with a slightly different angle, because obviously that search term and that traffic is valuable for both, but you don't want the exact same content getting indexed on both your sites. So tell us a little bit there before we get onto kind of measuring success in this co marketing motion that we're talking about

today. Uh, so it depends on the type of page, but if in on the article side of things probably you've got a section under your website Maybe named learn or resource hub or resources or blogs or whatever or learn or whatever you call it And then it can be a sub page like usually a drop down Each company does it a bit different Some have got like a resource hub where you've got separate sections when you click into the resource library You've got like you've got a section for I don't know if you're a crm provider Maybe you've got kind of marketing ops rev ops sales wherever it's relevant, and then you'll get all the blog listings when you click into each one. You don't necessarily, for some of these, need to be worried about people finding them too much through the site, unless they're super helpful playbooks or they're solution pages, because most of the time the traffic that's going to come is from Google search. It's when people are directly searching for that query, but having it either in the footer or one of the navigation parts of your top line menu nav under resource section probably makes sense. for a lot of this stuff. One tip that I've seen work well recently, you've probably done it with your background as well, Logan, is actually embedding a YouTube video in the top of your article. The reason being is I've found it helps stuff rank faster and if you build a YouTube video that's relevant to the topic it can also be ranked in the video section in Google results before your article. And then thirdly, it can give you a nice tasty thumbnail so when you do the search on Google it can have a image thumbnail which gives you almost like an unfair advantage in the search results if everything else is Just a URL link and body text like meta title and meta description if you've got a nice image Helps your your ranking your search engine result pay and ranking stand out a bit more. So, um, that's a nice little Thing to embed a relevant YouTube

video. I've been hearing some smart marketers. I look up to like Gaetano Di Nardi talk about very similar things. And I knew you would give us some very tactical tips on the SEO front. If you're leveraging one of these plays to co market with other agencies or complimentary software providers, Sam. So thank you for that tangent there and allowing me to ask a few follow up questions. I would love to talk a little bit about. Measuring success. Obviously most agencies, you've got limited resources. There's lots of people you could partner with. And so you've. So I'd got to be pretty selective and not just who you approach, but who you continue to, uh, invest time in to give referrals to, to do content together, especially if you're running a more in depth play, like co authoring a playbook or something like this that we're talking about. So how do you think about measuring success, iterating and determining which partnerships you double down on versus back away

from. So I'll give you quite literally what I would do and what we do. So I suppose the first thing is to, when it comes to success, what exactly are you hoping to get out of it? Is it a partnership where I want to send work each other's way? Is it a partnership where they're going to send work and you're going to give them like a kickback or a commission fee or something like that? So understand what the exact deliverables are of each partner. And then, because the thing you've got to remember is that there's probably for most angles that you hit it, there's probably gonna be several potential companies that you could send work to each way. So if one backs out, there's probably another two or three that you have got the potential, at least to reach out to, um, you might not have as close a relationship, they might not be directly a network, but most people aren't going to say no to potentially what is free business. So always have that in the back of your mind. So the main way that I found is experimenting. So at some stage, until you've built up an ecosystem of trusted partners, you're going to have to kind of go with someone that. You feel as a trusted provider, you've checked some of their results, checked some of their work, checked some of their case studies, the proofs in the pudding and all that good stuff, and then you're going to have to test them out, right? So at some stage, once you've had a conversation with the relevant person, you're going to have to kick some work their way, um, if that's the basis. And then once they've delivered that project or implementation or whatever it was, kind of ask if you can kind of speak to the client or see the results that they brought or something like that to make sure they're doing a good job. Um, and likewise, if you've agreed that they're going to kick work back your way, you've got to make sure they're doing the same thing. So doing that together and then seeing how the partnership goes. One, are they reliable in terms of doing good work and actually delivering? Two, are they fulfilling their side of relationship, whether that's sending you a commission payment or sending work back your way, um, and making sure if they are, there's a relevant incentive for, for both sides. And I suppose the content kicks in because if you can. Do the content channels and partnerships that we talked about. It kind of incentivize incentivizes both parts because it keeps the conversation flowing, keeps the rapport going, kind of gives you both exposure. If you're distributing those pieces of content onto the podcast, YouTube, social media, LinkedIn, et cetera, has the chance to generate more business. Meanwhile, and if you're doing kind of some blog articles and building some links, it gives you other incentives as well. But yeah, the long, long, long story short is you're going to have to trial at some stage and see what partners are a good fit. And if they aren't kind of doing good reciprocal business or delivering results, then give them the chop and move on to the next one is the long short of it, I'd say.

Absolutely. I think you've got to be willing to experiment is the way that I would put it the way that you summed up there. One more question for you, Sam. You've given some really good tactics on what to do, right? Have a few different plays, have some backups in the different areas where you have a partner and you're experimenting, but maybe it might not work out or something like that. Let's end it with what not to do. So what's maybe something where you've been partnering with another company, you don't have to name names, but it didn't go so well and why, or maybe something that just rubs you the wrong way when someone does either approach you about partnering together and doing some co marketing or a referral relationship that kind of rubs you the wrong way. What's one or two things that you would recommend people not do in this vein of finding partners to go to

market together? I'll give you two. So I suppose the first one is if you're going to reach out to a potential partner company, then try and go to them with something for them straight away. So everyone uses the term value, but I'd rather say that bring them something tangible. So say, look, I've got something in mind for you straight away. Like literally in that first one or two line of that personalized request, whether that's an email, whether that's LinkedIn, a voice note, a video message, whatever. So straight away, I've, I'm going to build out this article for you and I want to link to you, or I've, I've got some clients already asking for your offer. Can I introduce them? Or I've got this for you, so straight away, rather than going to them and saying, Oh, can you, can you kind of send website or SEO work our way, and just me, me, me. So kind of think straight away, so it's going to entice them and prompt a response. That's probably the first thing to flip, and not make the mistake of kind of focusing on you, but making it about them. And I've been guilty of that before, right, like I've been in this game like, I don't know, 12, 13 years and when I first started. Kind of selling websites and SEO. I thought kind of, it would be good if I just talked about how good we were and how long we've been in business and how many awards we won and soon realized that that's a very selfish way of doing things. And I suppose the second point is more on the co creation of media. And the mistake that I made when I started my podcast, which I believe, and a lot of people would probably argue with me, but I believe in a B2B podcast environment. If you're going to invite someone onto your podcast and you want to make it actually useful for your audience, try and beforehand understand what their area of expertise is. And then agree like a specific topic, just like you've done for this show, Logan, and have a quick discussion around kind of what they want to talk about, what they're passionate about, what they can share actionable tips on. And then if you're going to create some media together. Make sure it's kind of laser focused on that topic. So that way the show has kind of one main angle to it. It's not, we're starting about ten minutes about their life story up to now, then we're talking about their cats and dogs and their past relationships, then we're actually getting a little bit to the crux of the topic, then we're kind of going off another tangent, like, be laser focused on that, that point, so they can provide actionable takeaways to your audience. And then if you're going to share it as well and make, chop it up for social, it's going to give you a lot of nice snippets, and the audience are actually going to get something useful to them that they can put into play. Because I made that mistake when I started my podcast.

Okay. Yeah, I would completely agree with you there at this point. I've hosted hundreds of podcast episodes and I think there are hosts that are way better than me and further along. And I'm still learning from just picked up some things from a YouTube channel called film booth. Uh, I don't know if you follow them, but really good stuff on structuring your YouTube videos that I picked up for podcast episodes, but that tangent aside, Sam, I love what you said there, because if you really focus on what they want to, and are able. to speak to with some authority and expertise, it's going to do two things. One, those clips are going to be better for your audience. The episode's going to be better, but two, they're going to be more willing and interested to share it on social because they didn't just kind of, Hey, here's my story. And we kind of shot the breeze for a while. You were hitting them with questions in their area, area of expertise that they want to get out. There into the world. So if you can shine that spotlight on them in the way that you approach your podcasting together, then you're going to get them sharing it more. And then you're going to say, Oh, we got a win there. And it's gonna be easier to follow on with. Let's do another collaboration. Let's do that. Co authoring a playbook play that you talked about earlier, Sam. So I think that's fantastic advice. I love it, man. What's the best way to stay connected with you and the team at web choice? And maybe they want to reach out to you and engage on what we talked about here today, referral partnerships, co creating content together, partnering up as fellow agencies that might be complimentary. What would be the best way for them to go about that, man? Yes.

There's a couple of ways and appreciate you having me on Logan. So a couple of ways to reach out. LinkedIn, of course, that's where I share kind of stories, tips on B2B SEO and websites each day. And feel free to ping me a message, run the podcasts, a business growth show. And that's similar to this. We interview kind of B2B marketing practitioners, share actual tips and also do solo episodes where I'll talk about SEO websites and what works in B2B. And then lastly, if you're. Perhaps a little frustrated that your competitors are constantly ahead of you on Google search or feel like your website isn't converting as many sales leads as you wish, then you can check out my free resources or apply to work with us that's at Sam Dunning. org. I love

it, Sam. Thank you so much for being my guest on the show today. I really appreciate it. You and I have been connected on LinkedIn for. Quite a while. So it was good to get together, spend actually, you know, a good chunk of time. And I think you gave some very actionable tips for others. Thanks so much for being our guest today. Cheers,

man. Enjoyed it.